AN INTERVIEW WITH: Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu of Istanbu

"Official people do not like the Armenians, because in
their hearts they ask: 'Why have the Armenian people
throughout one thousand years . not become Muslims and
have resisted Turkification?"


During the week end of May 17-21, the courageous
"Baadvelee" (Reverend) Krikor Aghabaloghlu, the pastor
of the Gedik Pasha Armenian Evangelical Church in
Istanbul, visited the Armenian American community in
San Francisco.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu was invited by Rev. Nerses
Balabanian, the pastor of the Calvary Armenian
Congregational Church of San Francisco.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu delivered enlightening and
insightful remarks during the Saturday evening
banquet. The banquet took place on May 19, at the
jam-packed hall of the church. His speech was
interrupted by thunderous applause and at times with
standing ovations. Rev. Aghabaloghlu also delivered
the Sunday sermon in the church, filled to near
capacity.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu gave an interview to USA Armenian
Life Magazine on Sunday just before his departure to
New Jersey. The following is the first part of the
interview: (The second and final part will be
published next week.)

USA Armenian Life: "Baadvelee" Welcome to the USA.
What is the primary purpose of your visit to the
United States?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Thank you. The Armenian
Brotherhood church in New Jersey has invited me to
deliver my message to the community. There is a
chapter in the Holy Bible where Isaac's children had
dispersed. So Isaac calls upon his youngest son Joseph
to go see what happened to "your brothers, and what
they are up to? Bring me their news."

So, I think, God has prepared me and said: "Son, I am
sending you to go see your dispersed brothers. See how
they are living. What are they up to, and encourage
them. Talk to them. Preach to them and encourage
them." I thank God for that. For I have many brothers
who are inviting me to come and see them. On Monday, I
will go to New Jersey. I will stay there for one week
and I will preach to the Armenian people.

Once in a while, invitations arrive, and I don't turn
them down, because I am God's and the Armenian
people's servant. What is the duty of the servant? If
the Lord calls, the servant goes. Our Lord has called
me too. So, I shall go and serve Him and my brothers.

USA Armenian Life: You are famous around the world for
being a courageous Armenian spiritual leader in
Turkey, who without any fear states in what is now
called Turkey, that today's Turkey was founded on the
ashes of Western Armenia. During past direct
broadcasts on Turkish national television, you have
intrepidly told the Turks directly: "Enough with your
denialism of the facts of the Armenian Genocide!"
Where does the power for such courage come from?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: For one thing, I was born in
Anatolia and I have experienced many hardships.
Because...

USA Armenian Life: By Anatolia, you mean Western
Armenia?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Let's say Western Armenia.
Because, we are used to and are taught to refer to
Western Armenia as "Anatolia." Now, Western... let's
say historic Armenia. Because, where I was brought up,
it's not an easy thing to stay Armenian and to live as
a Christian. I have experienced too many hardships and
persecutions. I have seen many acts of ill treatment.
You do good deeds but you are "remunerated" by bad
deeds. Yes!

There are very good people who do good deeds and you
become joyful and you say that "yes you understand
that this is human." The human being shall be like
that. But if you do good deeds and you get
maltreatments in return, you do not forget.

... In Turkey there are a few very powerful people who
are like that. There are families. And there are
government officials who do not like the Armenians.
Because the following lies in their hearts: "Why has
the Armenian people throughout one thousand years
[Editor- Since 1071 AD when the Turks first invaded
Armenia] live with us and have not become Muslim and
were not Turkified?" They cannot accept that. That's
why they say: "If they live in Turkey, they should
have become Muslim and been Turkified." If you say,
"I'm Armenian," you touch the eye like a thorn or a
needle. He becomes unsettled. Whether you do something
or not, the man is like that. His nature is like that.
Oh! You shall be tortured. You shall loose your
homeland. You shall loose your schools; and your homes
will be taken away. Your churches shall be
confiscated. Your people shall decrease [Ed-in
numbers]. And then they will curse at you. You shall
listen. And after all that they shall tell you that
"you're guilty!"

For how long, for how long, one can keep quiet? I
don't know. This is my nature since my childhood. But
I could not keep my mouth shut. My father also,
wherever he used to go, he would say: "I'm Armenian
and Christian."

I was very little and I used to say: "Hayrig (father)
why are you saying: "I'm Armenian and Christian?
People are not asking a question like that!" He used
to say: "My child when you grow up, you'll
understand!" When I grew up I began to understand. I
understood that to be Armenian and to be Christian in
Anatolia was a hard thing to do. They always speak
against your religion; against your nation; your
family, your blood. You know, they always talk!"

I have been a teacher, history teacher. I have
encountered many hardships in Western Armenia. And now
God has called me and I have recognized God's power
and have acquired that power. And now that power
brings through my heart such an empowerment that you
can't express with words. It's such a great power.

Jesus said: "The Holy Spirit will remain inside you
and you shall acquire power."

While acquiring that power, Jesus said: "Now, I am
parting to be crucified." His pupils said: "What are
You saying. They will kill you." Jesus replied: "I
have come for that moment. If dying is needed, I'll go
and die." Later, the pupils said: "OK we also will go
and die." If you have that kind of love, you'll learn
from Christ!

For Jesus, dying is nothing. It was a gain. Later, you
too say, for the truth, for the right, for my nation,
dying is a game. If need be, I can die. One and one
half million [Armenians] have been sacrificed. The
odor of their blood permeates my nose. I remember,
because I was a child. During my childhood, the elders
used to narrate how their fathers and mothers were
massacred. They were crying as they were telling. As a
child, I used to hear and hear, and hear these things.

Later, again we were subjected to ill treatment during
the republic era. Up to now, the government has not
changed. It came up with laws in 1941-42. It took away
all the remaining riches from the Armenians. It did
the same thing in 1955.

USA Armenian Life: Are you referring to "Varlic
vergise" (Possession taxes)?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: They did it against the
Greeks in 1955. But also they did it once more,
against the Armenians.

Later, 1974 was unforgettable. It was impossible! I
can't come up with a name for it, even if it needs to
be defined. I can't name it. It was inconceivable. If
you claim that it was a law, it did not fit. Then, the
government says: "The churches' becoming rich hurts
the government." And it confiscates all the properties
from the churches.

Is this possible? So, the church initiated a lawsuit
insisting that it had purchased these properties with
money, therefore, it said: "Compensate us." The
government replied: "There is neither any money, nor
any buildings for you."

It's impossible.

We have spoken out. Europe did not understand it. It
is only now that Europe has awakened.

But the government will do bad deeds against the
church and the Armenian people, then shamelessly it
will write in schoolbooks that the "Armenians have
back-stabbed us." How did they backstab you?

Now the era of the republic is laid open in front of
us, isn't it?

Can our government people say: "during the days of the
republic, the Armenian people [Ed- in Turkey] have
done this one bad deed???" Have you heard that they
have?

USA Armenian Life: No!

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Can anybody prove that?
Good! In 1915 one could claim that the Armenians
massacred the Turks. Or you can claim that the
Armenians sided with the Russians.

USA Armenian Life: They are coming up with pretexts.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Now what? This proves one
thing: That is the habit of the Turkish government. It
always likes to confiscate. Look. The people's heart
is good. The majority of the Turkish people are good.
They like the Armenian people. They know the
Armenians. But what happens? The government people,
the official people or the military people always
talk, talk, talk and by talking and talking, they
misguide the people. They fill the people's hearts
with bad stuff, you know my brother. So what will
happen to them? Oh, they will say: "our professors are
advising as such. Undoubtedly they are right, because
they are our professors."

USA Armenian Life: In your remarks yesterday, you
clearly defined the confiscations from the Armenians
during the 50's and the 70's as economic genocide...

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, yes! I'll arrive to
that. Yes, in my opinion, that is economic genocide.
There is no other definition.

You can't define it any other way. They always take
and take. Then they shamelessly say: "we have taken
nothing. We don't say anything and you, (Armenians),
are lying." How do we lie? Right then and there, if
you are a believer, if you recognize Christ, His
courage permeates you. And you say: "If sacrificing is
needed I can not abstain from speaking out."

When I entered into the church and became aware of
these problems, I said to myself: "This is
indigestible! I can't digest it and will speak out."
And I began to speak out.

It is for that reason that I wish to tell the majority
of the Armenian people who live in Europe and America
that they don't know the truth about the situation of
the Armenian people in Turkey. Many among these people
will tell you: "we're doing well. We're obedient,
because, from time to time, they show individuals on
TV."

Where do they find them? I don't know! The name sounds
Armenian. But the heart is not Armenian. They say:
"we're obedient and well. There's nothing going on
here." Oh man! What kind of Armenian are you?

USA Armenian Life: Totally enslaved!

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: How can you be an Armenian!
How blind are you that you can't see. Or how cowardly
are you that you can't speak out!

I can't comprehend that an Armenian can be this
cowardly and say: "We're doing well."

Well it shall be good. It's my homeland. I've not come
from the outside. I'm not a beggar. I'm not asking for
mercy from the Turkish nation by saying: "Please, I
have no place to go to, no home to dwell in. I have no
homeland. Accept me in. Let me live here."

I am not like that. Western Armenia is my motherland.
I've been living there since four thousand years and
if money is needed to be paid I'll pay taxes. Is there
a need to serve in the Army? I'll do that as well. I'm
not a beggar. Yes, I'll live well. Why not? Why not?
If others live well, we also will live well in our
ancestral lands. ...

I'm very joyful that the churches are open. What else?
Can you teach Armenian history in your schools?

Now the Turkish people in Europe are erecting mosques.
Is that not true? Europe is Christian. She says:
"You're Muslim. Come and open your mosque. Open your
school and at the same time, during your holidays,
take your Turkish flag and walk in the streets. Can't
they do it? They can! Don't they?

USA Armenian Life: They have freedom.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Aha! Now, can you do it?

USA Armenian Life: In Turkey?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: For once, can you, as
Armenian in Turkey...

USA Armenian Life: And as an indigenous people...

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, can you take one
Armenian flag and observe a holiday? Can you do it?
What kind of freedom is that? How free are we? Can you
teach your own children in the Armenian school the
Armenian history?

In all the schools, the vice-principle must be a Turk,
whose job is to keep an eye on your activities. Now
are you free? How free are you? You like to move the
church from there, because the number of your people
has dwindled here. Now there are other neighborhoods.
Can you relocate your church and build a new church?
Can you build? You can't build! According to the new
law of two years ago, when Turkey was trying to enter
the European Union, "Yes, from now on, the churches
can be repaired. The government people are respecting
to us in every way" Can you repair your church as
result of this new law?

But the Turkish nation in Europe is so comfortable. I
am happy for them, they deserve to be comfortable. Why
not? But I want to do the same thing here in Turkey.
But I can't do it. I can't!

USA Armenian Life: Meaning that in emulation of
whatever freedom the Turkish people are experiencing
here in the free world, the Armenians are not able to
do the same in their own ancestral lands.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, in their ancestral
homeland!

USA Armenian Life: During the first four months of
this year, two earth-shaking murders took place.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Three of them took place.
Yesterday they killed five more.

USA Armenian Life: Later on, please give some details
of the third murder. The first one was on January 19,
when the extremist Turks murdered the Armenian
journalist and editor of "Agos" Hrant Dink. The second
one, if I'm not mistaken, was on April 18, in Malatia
when three non-Armenian Christians - one German and
two Turkish Christians - were murdered. So, on the
occasion of these murders and according to many
sources, there is a forecast that these events will
become more frequent. Do you agree that this will be
so?

End of PART 1. Part 2 of 2 will be published next
week.