Showing posts with label 8th July 2008. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 8th July 2008. Show all posts

Tuesday, 8 July 2008

Setbacks in the recognition of the Armenian Genocide

TURKISH THESIS REGARDING 1915 EVENTS ADOPTED BY OSCE - Thursday, July 03, 2008

Turkey's thesis against Armenian allegations about the events of 1915 has been adopted for the first time by the general assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

"The OSCE Parliamentary Assembly's annual session was held in Kazakhstan's capital Astana with the main theme of 'Transparency in the OSCE'. During the session, a motion submitted by the Turkish delegation was adopted. The motion underlines that past events like genocide should be recognized only after historians carried out a detailed research in all kinds of archives," Alaattin Buyukkaya, who leads the Turkish group at the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, told a statement on Wednesday.

In 2005, Turkey officially proposed to the Armenian government the establishment of a joint historical commission composed of historiansand other experts from both sides to study together the events of 1915 and to open the archives of Turkey and Armenia, as well as the archives of all relevant third-party countries and share their findings publicly.

Unfortunately, Armenia has not yet responded positively to this initiative and Turkey's proposal remains on the table.

Turkey and Armenia have no diplomatic links since Ankara intensified its protests against Armenian invasion and violence in the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which Armenia invaded in a war with Azerbaijan in the early 1990s.

The border between Turkey and Armenia has been closed.

Armenia, with the backing of the Diaspora, claims up to 1.5 million of their kin were slaughtered in orchestrated killings in 1915. Turkey rejects the claims, saying that 300,000 Armenians along with at least as many Turks died in civil strife that emerged when the Armenians took up arms for independence in eastern Anatolia.

"The OSCE is the biggest international organization behind the United Nations. Adoption of the Turkish thesis by the OSCE is a significant achievement against the Armenian allegations. Also, the Turkish thesis regarding the events of 1915 was adopted for the first time on an international platform. The OSCE has 56 member states. Only Armenia voted against the motion. A majority of the other member states voted in favor of it," he said.

"The motion says that the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly encourages the formation of joint history commissions by historians and experts from the third countries in case of a research into political and military archives to scientifically and unbiasedly enlighten a disputed period in history in an effort to serve transparency and common understanding among the member states," Buyukkaya added.

The Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE is the parliamentary dimension of the organization, whose 56 participating States span the geographical area from Vancouver to Vladivostok. The primary task of the 320 member Assembly is to facilitate inter-parliamentary dialogue, an important aspect of the overall effort to meet the challenges of democracy throughout the OSCE area. [even where there is no diplomatic relations?]

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AFTER MEETINGS IN TURKEY, FOXMAN SAYS FALLOUT OVER 'GENOCIDE'
FLAP IS 'BEHIND US'
Herb Keinon
THE JERUSALEM POST
Jul. 7, 2008

The controversy and fallout over the Anti-Defamation League's statement last year that Turkish actions toward Armenians during World War I was "tantamount to genocide" is "behind us," ADL National Director Abe Foxman said Monday in Jerusalem, where he arrived from Ankara and a series of meetings with Turkey's leadership.

Last August, Foxman - who was in a dispute in the Boston area over the ADL's position on the Turkey-Armenia issue - infuriated Turkish leaders by issuing the following statement: "We have never negated but have always described the painful events of 1915-1918 perpetrated by the Ottoman Empire against the Armenians as massacres and atrocities. On reflection, we have come to share the view of Henry Morgenthau, Sr. (the US ambassador to the Ottoman Empire at the time) that the consequences of those actions were indeed tantamount to genocide.

If the word 'genocide' had existed then, they would have called it genocide...

"Having said that, we continue to firmly believe that a congressional resolution on such matters is a counterproductive diversion and will not foster reconciliation between Turks and Armenians and may put at risk the Turkish Jewish community and the important multilateral relationship between Turkey, Israel and the United States."

The Turks viewed this as a reversal of the organized Jewish community's position on the issue, and warned that Turkish-Israeli ties could be harmed if the American Jewish organizations did not work - as they had done in the past - to ensure that the US Congress did not pass a resolution characterizing the massacre of Armenians during World War I as genocide.

The legislation was eventually removed from the table after US President George W. Bush, and numerous former secretaries of state and defense, wrote letters saying that passing the legislation would harm American interests.

"They were angry," Foxman said of the Turkish response to the ADL's statement last year. "But I think today there is an understanding of where we were, and that we were opposed to Congressional legislation, and that we stood very firm that that was not the way to resolve the issue, and that there is nothing cataclysmic about using the 'genocide' word."

Foxman, who met with President Abdullah Gul, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Foreign Minister Ali Babacan and other key government figures, said his message was that the Turks should be "proactive" and try to help today's Armenia as part of an effort to resolve the historic affair.

"In the conversations I had with all of them I said there is a need to be proactive, that they need to deal with live Armenians, and strengthen the relationship between Turkey and Armenia, and by strengthening the relations today - frontier issues, opening borders - it will place the historical issue in the background and be much easier to deal with," Foxman said.

By the same token, Foxman said that the Armenian community in the US should understand that pressure to use "certain words they want us to use is not going to help one Armenian."

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1915 killings of Armenians stokes Georgetown furor on academic freedom
July 6, 2008
By Susan Kinzie
The Washington Post

WASHINGTON - The issue that has roiled U.S.-Turkish relations in recent months ' how to characterize the mass killings of Armenians in 1915 ' has set off a dispute over politics and academic freedom at an institute housed at Georgetown University.

Several board members of the Institute of Turkish Studies have resigned this summer, protesting the ouster of a board chairman who wrote that scholars should research, rather than avoid, what he characterized as an Armenian genocide.

Within weeks of writing about the matter in late 2006, Binghamton University professor Donald Quataert resigned from the board of governors, saying the Turkish ambassador to the United States told him he had angered some political leaders in Ankara and that they had threatened to revoke the institute's funding.

After a prominent association of Middle Eastern scholars learned about it, they wrote a letter in May to the institute, the Turkish prime minister and other leaders asking that Quataert be reinstated and money for the institute be put in an irrevocable trust to avoid political influence.

The ambassador of the Republic of Turkey, H.E. Nabi Sensoy, denied that he had any role in Quataert's resignation. In a written statement, he said that claims that he urged Quataert to leave are unfounded and misleading.

The dispute shows the tensions between money and scholarship, and the impact language can have on historical understanding.

Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were killed when the Ottoman Empire collapsed after World War I. Armenians and Turks bitterly disagree over whether it was a campaign of genocide, or a civil war in which many Turks were also killed.

In the fall, when Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) championed a bill that would characterize the events of 1915 to 1917 as genocide, the Bush administration fought it and several former defense secretaries warned that Turkish leaders would limit U.S. access to a military base needed for the war in Iraq.

The Turkish studies institute, founded in 1983, is independent from Georgetown University, but Executive Director David Cuthell teaches a course there in exchange for space on campus.

Julie Green Bataille, a university spokeswoman, wrote in an e-mail, "We will review this matter consistent with the importance of academic reedom and the fact that the institute is independently funded and governed."

The institute's funding, a $3 million grant, is entirely from Turkey.

A few years ago, Quataert said, members of the board checked on what they thought was an irrevocable blind trust "and to our surprise it turned out to be a gift that could be revoked by the Turkish government."

Quataert, a professor of history, said the institute has funded good scholarship without political influence. The selection of which studies to support is done by a committee of academics on the associate board, he said, and approved by the board, which includes business and political leaders. Never once, he said, did he think a grant application was judged on anything other than its academic merits.

He also noted that during his time there, no one applied for grants that would have been controversial in Turkey. Asked if any of the research characterized the events as genocide, Cuthell said, "My gut is no. It's that third rail."

Roger Smith, professor emeritus of government at the College of William and Mary, questioned whether the non-profit institute deserves its tax-exempt status if there is political influence ' and whether it is an undeclared lobbying arm for the Turkish government.

Cuthell said none of the institute's critics ever bothered to check the truth of Quataert's account with the institute: It does not lobby, Cuthell said, and "the allegations of academic freedom simply don't hold up."

The controversy began quietly in late 2006 with a review of historian Donald Bloxham's book, "The Great Game of Genocide." Quataert wrote that the slaughter of Armenians has been the elephant in the room of Ottoman studies. Despite his belief that the term "genocide" had
become a distraction, he said the events met the United Nations definition of the word.

He sent a letter of resignation to members of the institute in December 2006, and one board member resigned.

But in the fall, around the same time that Congress was debating the Armenian question, Quataert was asked to speak at a conference about what had happened at the institute. He told members of the Middle Eastern Studies Association that the ambassador told him he must issue
a retraction of his book review or step down ' or put funding for the institute in jeopardy.

His colleagues were shocked, said Laurie Brand, director of the school of international relations at the University of Southern California.

Ambassador Sensoy, who is honorary chairman of the institute's board, said in a statement this week, "Neither the Turkish Government nor I have ever placed any pressure upon the ITS, for such interference would have violated the principle of the academic freedom, which we uphold the most. The Turkish Government and I will be the first to defend ITS from any such pressure." [!!!!!]

Since the May 27 letter from the scholars association was sent, several associate and full members of the board have left. Marcie Patton, Resat Kasaba and Kemal Silay resigned; Fatma Muge Gocek said she would resign, and Birol Yesilada said his primary reason for stepping down at this time is his health, but that he is concerned about the conflicting accounts of what had happened. "It's a very difficult line that scholars walk," Patton said, "especially post-9/11, especially because of the Iraq war."

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Armenian News

Subject: ANKARA: Gul has first talks w/Medvedev, courtesy meeting w/Sarksyan
Today's Zaman, Turkey
Gül has first talks with Medvedev, `courtesy meeting' with Sarksyan

Gül (C) is seen chatting with his Armenian counterpart, Sarksyan, and Azerbaijani President Aliyev (L). Photo

Weekend festivities in Astana to celebrate the 10th birthday of the Kazakh capital city offered an opportunity for the first bilateral meeting between Turkey's President Abdullah Gül and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev since Medvedev's March election.

Astana was also the venue for a first courtesy meeting between Gül and Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan, elected in February. The three leaders, none of whom have yet concluded their first year in office, attended celebrations for the 10-year anniversary of the world's youngest capital, Astana, which was designated the country's leading city by Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev. On Saturday Gül and Medvedev held bilateral talks closed to the press on the sidelines of the Astana gathering. "Turkey and Russia are two countries whose relations with each other have been proceeding in regards to neighborhood, friendship and in every way. I believe that all of us will work in cooperation to carry our relations to a further level. As both you and we have this political will, I believe we can carry this out," Gül said, as the two leaders posed for the cameras ahead of their meeting.

Medvedev expressed pleasure over his meeting with Gül and pledged efforts for improving bilateral relations with Turkey. Later in the day, his presidential aide, Sergei Prikhodko, said Medvedev and Gül had agreed to exchange visits and discussed prospects for interaction between the two countries in the fields of investment and tourism.

Prikhodko said Medvedev had invited the Turkish president to make an official visit to Russia, while Gül said he would be glad to see his Russian colleague in his country.

During the meeting, the leaders of the two countries considered possibilities for increasing trade and expanding cooperation to carry out key infrastructure projects. "Abdullah Gül noted Turkish construction companies' great interest in realizing key infrastructure projects in Russia. Turkey showed interest in attracting construction companies to carry out tasks on the [Winter] Olympic Games in Sochi," Prikhodko said.

Also on Saturday Gül spoke briefly with Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev and Sarksyan at the presidential Akorda Palace. Gül walked arm-in-arm with the two leaders for a while. During the walk, Sarksyan started the conversation, saying, "I know Turkish," in Turkish. However Aliyev assisted their conversation, acting as a translator.

Speaking to reporters yesterday, Gül called his conversation with Sarksyan and Aliyev a "courtesy meeting." During the conversation he congratulated Sarksyan for his election to the presidency and told him that he had received a formal invitation to visit Yerevan for a football match in September, Gül said. "We are assessing the invitation," Gül briefly told reporters, when asked whether he would accept the invitation. Armenia and Turkey will play against each other in the Armenian capital of Yerevan on Sept. 6 in a qualifying match for the 2010 FIFA World Cup, scheduled to be held in South Africa.

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07 July 2008, Monday
ARMENIAN MONASTERIES IN IRAN ADDED TO WORLD HERITAGE LIST
Cultural Heritage News Agency
7 July 2008
Tehran

The Armenian Monastic Ensembles in Iran, in the north-east of the country, consists of three monastic ensembles of the Armenian Christian faith Fortified Armenian monasteries in Iran were added to the new sites inscribed on UNESCO's World Heritage List. The Armenian Monastic Ensembles in the north-east of the country, consists of three monastic ensembles of the Armenian Christian faith: St Thaddeus, St Stepanos, and the Chapel of Dzordzor.

Fortified Armenian monasteries in Iran were added to the new sites inscribed on UNESCO's World Heritage List on 6 July.

The Armenian Monastic Ensembles in Iran, in the north-east of the country, consists of three monastic ensembles of the Armenian Christian faith: St Thaddeus and St Stepanos and the Chapel of Dzordzor. Theseedifices - the oldest of which, St Thaddeus, dates back to the 7th century - are examples of outstanding universal value of the Armenian architectural and decorative traditions.

They bear testimony to very important interchanges with the other regional cultures, in particular the Byzantine, Orthodox and Persian. Situated on the south-eastern fringe of the main zone of the Armenian cultural space, the monasteries constituted a major centre for the dissemination of that culture into Azerbayjan and Persia. They are the last regional remains of this culture that are still in a satisfactory state of integrity and authenticity. Furthermore, as places of pilgrimage, the monastic ensembles are living witnesses of Armenian religious traditions through the centuries.

This is the fourth cultural site to be added onto UNESCO's World Heritage List since the start of the current session of the World Heritage Committee today. The three properties inscribed earlier today were: Le Morne Cultural Landscape in Mauritius, The Al-Hijr Archaeological Site (Madâin Sâlih) in Saudi Arabia, and the Fujian Tulou in China.

Iran had eight historical sites on the UNESCO list. Pasargadae, Bam and its Cultural Landscape, Tchogha Zanbil, Persepolis, Meidan Emam in Esfahan, Bisotun, Takht-e Soleyman and Soltaniyeh, the mausoleum of Oljaytu. So magnificent Armenian monastic ensembles in Azerbaijan province becomes its ninth inscription on the World Heritage List.
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Armenian Ombudsman Asks For Armed Protection
By Ruzanna Khachatrian

Armenia's embattled human rights obudsman, Armen Harutiunian, has asked the National Security Service (NSS) to assign armed bodyguards to him and members of his family.

In a letter to the NSS Director Gorik Hakobian made public by his press service on Monday, Harutiunian said they need five bogyuards and two vehicles for that purpose. He said one of the requested cars would escort his personal limousine while the other would cater for his family members.

Harutiunian cited a clause in Armenia's law on state human rights defender that entitles him and his closest relatives to armed protection by the state. He did not explain why he needs such
protection now, more than two years after being elected by parliament on the recommendation of then President Robert Kocharian.

`There is no particular reason for my step,' Harutiunian told RFE/RL.
`I just decided to make use of my legal right.'

Harutiunian, who previously advised Kocharian on constitutional law, has been increasingly at odds with the Armenian authorities in recent months over their harsh response to opposition demonstrations sparked by the disputed presidential election of February 19.

The dispute has centered on the use of lethal force against thousands of supporters of opposition leader Levon Ter-Petrosian who barricaded themselves outside the Yerevan mayor's office hours after the break-up of their 10-day sit-in in the city's Liberty Square on March 1. The authorities have defended their actions, saying that security forces that tried to disperse the angry crowd were not only pelted with stones and Molotov cocktails but also came under gunfire.

Harutiunian cast doubt on the credibility of the official theory in an extensive report issued in late April. The report, cited by European Union and Council of Europe officials, said in particular
that the Armenian police have yet to publicize any evidence of the use of firearms by the protesters.

Armenia's Office of the Prosecutor-General and the Ministry of Justice voiced strong objections to the ombudsman's findings in separate reports released in late May. Speaking at special parliamentary hearings on the controversy held in early June, the heads of the two government agencies said that Harutiunian's reportis based on `unfounded' opposition claims and is therefore not objective. The ombudsman rejected the claims.

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Key Armenian Official Sacked
By Karine Kalantarian

The longtime head of an Armenian government agency issuing passports and visas was sacked on Monday less than two weeks after being publicly accused of corruption by Prime Minister Tigran Sarkisian.

Colonel Alvina Zakarian, widely thought to be a figure close to President Serzh Sarkisian, headed the Department of Passports and Visas of the Armenian police for more than 15 years.

The agency, better known as OVIR, is also responsible for granting residency permits to foreigners, processing applications for Armenian citizenship and dealing with other immigration-related matters. In recent years it has also been granted the authority to draw up and update Armenia's notoriously inaccurate voter lists.

The police gave no official reason for Zakarian's sacking. The development has been anticipated since a June 26 session of the Armenian government during which Prime Minister Sarkisian called corruption `the number one problem' facing the country and singled out OVIR as one of the most corrupt government agencies.

`We are receiving numerous complaints from both our citizens and [Diaspora] compatriots visiting Armenia,' Sarkisian told ministers.

`Clearly we have a problem in this sphere and that problem is corruption, when a service is provided on behalf of the state but some people set tariffs and extort money. I think the environment there is such that we can't tolerate it.'

`I am asking the chief of the police present proposals about what measures we need to take there in order to quickly improve the quality of services which we provide to our citizens,' he said.

OVIR and its controversial chief have long faced corruption allegations but it was the first time that they were effectively endorsed by a senior government official.

Zakarian has also been a target of frequent opposition attacks ever since her agency officially certified in early 1998 that then Prime Minister Robert Kocharian has permanently resided in Armenia for the previous ten years and can therefore run for president. Kocharian had served as president of Nagorno-Karabakh before moving to Yerevan in 1997. His opponents say he was therefore not eligible to stand in the presidential elections held in 1998 and 2003.

Opposition politicians have also accused OVIR of manipulating voter lists and issuing tens of thousands of fake passports to bribed voters to ensure Serzh Sarkisian's and his Republican Party's victory in Armenia's last presidential and parliamentary elections. Zakarian and other government officials have strongly denied these allegations.

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Seta Paskalian-Kantarjian awarded ADLP Armenia Commemorative Gold Medal



SETA PASKALIAN-KANTARJIAN AWARDED ADLP ARMENIA
COMMEMORATIVE GOLD MEDAL

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Sexuality in Islam - FATHER FRANK’S RANTS


Rant Number 310 7 July 2008

Sexuality in Islam

A learned academic conference in Oxford on the subject of orgasm. Psychologists, sociologists, anthropologists and whatsit argue heatedly all day long. Hard-line feminists accuse men of phallic fascism. ‘Castrating viragos!’ emotional males hurl back. It nearly comes to blows. Throughout, a bespectacled, donnish-looking fellow sits it out, quietly, with a puzzled expression on his face. Just before the conference is over, the man manages to seize the mike and declares: ‘Honestly, I cannot understand why you people get so hot under the collar about something which happens only once a year and lasts only two minutes.’

I wonder whether Abdelwahab Bouhdiba, author of the diverting Sexuality in Islam, would find that funny. Many eminent sexologists were perhaps a tad less than priapic in their private lives. From Krafft-Ebing to the translator of the Thousand and One Nights, Sir Richard F. Burton. But I do not wish to be flippant. Sexuality is an awesome subject. The Greeks knew all about it. ‘Eros is a great demon’ avers Socrates in Plato’s Symposium. And Professor Bouhdiba is undeniably a serious scholar. Despite chapters entitled ‘the infinite orgasm’, ‘erotology’, ‘variations on eroticism’ and ‘commerce with the invisible’ – this latter also dealing with coitus with djinns. One could of course carp that a book which purports to be about ‘the Islamic view of sexuality’ begs the question. An Edward Said might object that it also smacks of a timeless, abstract essentialism. (Taking a leaf out an unnamed Rant reader here…) Why write of the view? As if a plurality of Islamic viewpoints on this subject were non-existent or impossible. The author himself mentions some tricky, heterodox ones, prevalent amongst certain Sufis. Bet no self-respecting Wahabi or Taleban would underwrite them. See, a cautionary note is in order.

The writer teaches Islamic sociology at Tunis University. So he rightly roots his work in the Qur’anic text. E.g. sura 4, 1, The Women, suggests that sexes are complementary: ‘O Mankind! Fear your guardian Lord who created you from a single soul, and from it created its mate, and from the pair of them scattered countless men and women.’ And a famous prophetic saying has it that ‘marriage is half of a man’s religion’. Accordingly, it is ‘the mutual relationship of the sexual and the sacral within Arab-Muslim societies’ that the book sets out to investigate. With a declared polemical intent. Because, unlike Christianity, he claims, Islam assigns an absolute, total and totalising position to sexuality. Is that so? ‘Total’ sounds a bit too totalitarian. Anyway, it is for the ulama to comment authoritatively there. For Christianity, the priest will cite only the service for Holy Matrimony in Cranmer’s Prayer Book. It speaks of marriage as ‘signifying unto us the mystical union that is betwixt Christ and his Church’. A mighty high view of sexuality, by any theological reckoning! Further, the Anglican Prayer Book enjoins the duties of mutual friendship between man and wife and of the begetting of children. It also warns against fornication, i.e. unlawful sex. Would any pious Muslim disagree with that?

Under the stirring heading of ‘infinite orgasm’, our sexologist invokes both the Qur’an and writers like Sheikh Suyuti. To the effect that sex galore obtains in heaven. Indeed, paradise is ‘the place of perpetual erection and orgasm that lasts for 24 years’. Wallahi! Too much of a good thing, perhaps? By sharp contrast, St Matthew’s Gospel has Jesus assert that at the resurrection people ‘neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.’ (22:29-30).

Four points. First, it is not for the priest to interpret Qur’anic passages describing the carnal pleasures of the Hereafter. But he knows that some Muslim exegetes understand them not literally but symbolically. They’d better, because the resurrected bodies in question are a bit peculiar. ‘The inhabitants of paradise have no behinds…behinds were created for defecation and in Paradise there is no defecation’. I am happy to note that implies that sexual activity in the next world must be strictly halal.

Second, granted that both monotheistic faiths believe in the resurrection of the whole person, so that the blessed must enjoy both bodily and mental delights, the philosophical question stands as to which pleasures are more distinctive of transfigured human beings. John Stuart Mill, hardly a Platonist, admitted that it is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a pig satisfied. In other words, human happiness is of a different kind from that enjoyed by an animal. Aristotle thought the highest form of human happiness was that of the intellect, bios theoretikos. All right, not all people enjoy doing high maths or reading poetry or discussing Heidegger. Maybe there is a hierarchy of pleasures, or even souls, in Paradise, as indeed the Muslim philosopher Ibn Sina believed. We are all different and diversity, we are constantly reminded, is a good thing.

Third, there are actually differences between Christian and Islamic views of sexuality. The whole monastic and celibate tradition, so important to Catholics and Orthodox, is alien to Islam. (Thus speaks a Protestant.) Jesus, unlike Muhammad, did not have a wife and that’s that. And our Scriptures, though sharing much, are different. Hence we must live with, accept our differences. Vive la difference!

Fourth, Professor Bouhdiba won’t like this but sexuality, like power, must be controlled. Sex, as chubby St Thomas Aquinas well saw, must be with the right person, in the right way, for the right purpose. The ‘perverse and polymorphous’ sexuality of Dr Freud no society will ever countenance. Islam surely does not. Freud’s maddest epigones, like Wilhelm Reich, came to grief because of that. After constructing a crackpot ‘orgone machine’, to capture cosmic orgasmic force, Reich tried to experiment in on kids. Naturally, he ended up his days in the clinker. Philosopher Herbert Marcuse had another go at unleashing the pleasure principle in 1968, amongst university students. It no doubt increased copulation but, to his chagrin, it brought about no revolution.

Lastly, a minor point. The professor lists many worthy Muslim females. The Prophet’s mother, Amina, his nurse, Halima. His many wives, Khadija, Aysha, Zyanab, Um Salama…No mention, however, of his daughter, Fatima. Ali’s wife. Revered by all Muslims but especially by the Shia. Chance or design?

Revd Frank Julian Gelli

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Trkagan Adyan-ue gue Knnarge AKP-i Tad-ue



COMPILED BY HAGOP MARDIROSSIAN
LOS ANGELES, U.S.A.
: RAG Mamoul (ragmamoul1@gmail.com)

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